Written by: Asher, Odaily Planet Daily
Yesterday (December 23), Shaw, the creator of the Eliza framework and founder of ai16z DAO, was interviewed by Odaily Planet Daily during a fan meet-up event in Shanghai, sharing the latest developments of ai16z, degenai, and the deeply cooperative project ELIZA, as well as the impact of AI on Web3 in 2025.
The following is the interview transcript.
Odaily Planet Daily: You have been quite popular in the Web3 field recently, which must have brought a lot of pressure. Can you share your personal experience and why you chose to step into the spotlight from being an anonymous developer in the second half of this year?
Shaw:
I didn't deliberately want to step into the spotlight, nor did I expect such things to happen. It feels very strange because I was just a programmer before, and nobody knew who I was. At that time, I was even anonymous, but I gradually felt a bit disconnected from the crowd, so I wanted to try to be myself and show myself authentically online. Then, I released the Eliza framework, which unexpectedly became very popular and completely changed my life. I never anticipated these things happening. In fact, I didn't even realize that the developer field also has a so-called 'spotlight'.
There is indeed pressure from the outside. I used to love promoting some other projects purely because I personally thought those projects were great, and I wanted to share what I believed in. However, when the DAO started to grow very large, everyone became particularly focused on token-related matters, which made me feel a lot of internal pressure and I could no longer casually talk about those projects I liked.
Odaily Planet Daily: The Eliza framework is now one of the most followed projects on GitHub. What makes it special?
Shaw:
I think there are mainly three reasons. First, it's ready to use right out of the box. Currently, there are many AI agents and tools related to large language models (LLMs). While they are all great toolkits, you still need to build the entire agent yourself. Our Eliza framework can be directly run as soon as it is launched, and it includes everything you might need. Furthermore, it offers many plugins, such as Solana plugins and EVM plugins, which are already integrated.
Secondly, the core of AI agents is network-centric. I noticed that many people limit AI to Python research and model development, but I think the more important aspect of agents is connecting all these models to people through the internet. Therefore, we built it with TypeScript, and Web3 is particularly suitable for the JavaScript and TypeScript ecosystem, which allows many developers to easily get started.
Thirdly, focus on social loops. We have focused on building connectors with social platforms like X, Discord, and Telegram so that developers can immediately run our tools, allowing their bots to go live on X without coding. They can then add their own features on top of that, such as integrating EVM chains, which allows them to add a wallet to their agents with almost no code changes. Alternatively, if they have their own software and API, they can also call them through the proxy. Starting with social media is key, and agents on social media can self-promote, raising awareness of their existence and spreading rapidly. I believe this is the reason for its success: agents can easily go live on X, and then everyone who sees it will want one, and they can quickly acquire and use it.
Odaily Planet Daily: Last week, ai16z not only launched the Binance alpha section but also launched OKX contract trading. Is there a plan for further in-depth cooperation with mainstream exchanges?
Shaw:
Of course, we have other people on our team specifically responsible for these matters. I think you might see more tokens listed and relevant progress after the New Year holiday, but I can't promise a specific timeline. I believe that listing on Binance and Coinbase is an inevitable trend, but I am more focused on AI agent-related content, so I cannot make any guarantees and do not provide investment advice.
Odaily Planet Daily: What is the difference between ai16z and previous DAO organizations in the Web3 field?
Shaw:
I think the core issue of previous DAO organizations is that the decentralized attribute of the DAO has indeed been realized, but the autonomy part has not been done well. It is not truly 'autonomous'; it still requires a lot of manpower for communication and coordination. This brings many problems, such as a small group of people holding all the power. Usually, some 'whales' control all the voting rights; for newcomers, it is difficult to enter and participate, making contributions to the DAO.
This shortsighted behavior obviously exposes many coordination problems within the DAO. We believe that this is precisely where our technology can solve the problem, enabling more people to truly participate and contribute, and providing rewards for their contributions. We are exploring a mechanism for 'continuous retrospective funding allocation'. The idea is that if you contribute code to the codebase, assist in Discord working groups, or provide help in any meaningful way, these contributors will be rewarded. This differs from traditional airdrops; it is more like a continuous reward system for contributors. We plan to implement this reward mechanism every month. Currently, we are working hard to develop the relevant features for this.
Odaily Planet Daily: So, do you think ai16z Dao will have its own business model in the future? What is it?
Shaw:
Yes, our business model is based on the accumulation of token value. At the same time, we are also making some investments, mainly in projects that we believe are very valuable, such as token launch platforms, DeFi platforms, and projects in ecosystems using AI agents.
We are not like a traditional startup without VC support, but we do have a relatively large fund that was donated by a whale. We are using this fund to invest in projects that we believe are important and to gain returns from them. We are also developing our own token launch platform and are currently collaborating with the teams we have invested in. This is somewhat like the concept of the Baidu Fund, and we are also working more deeply with Baidu Fund and some other projects.
Odaily Planet Daily: Last weekend, ai16z's official Twitter mentioned integrating its ecological token economic model. Is it through staking, burning, and other methods to increase the token's value?
Shaw:
I think burning tokens is not an effective strategy to some extent. At least based on my experience, burning tokens sometimes gives a feeling of 'dumping', which doesn’t seem to truly help the long-term value of the token. In fact, if I burn tokens myself, it might upset some people because they feel it undermines their incentives. However, I think staking is very important. I believe any mechanism that can lock up tokens will be very popular. What we are really concerned about right now is that our token faces huge liquidity issues after listing. For example, we have a token with a market cap of $1 billion, but only $4 million in liquidity, which is obviously not enough.
Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding degenai, you mentioned on the X platform that its AI agent is about to be launched. Can you reveal what kind of AI agent it will be? What is its core competitiveness?
Shaw:
Yes, degenai is about to debut. It is the first character we are launching, and it will come with a built-in wallet when it goes live. Degenai can obtain trading signals through social media, and we will track certain KOLs to see if they are really sharing quality recommendations. If we follow the suggestions of these KOLs, can we profit? Or are they actually 'cutting leeks'? The core of degenai is to establish a trust scoring system to make trading decisions based on this data. The ultimate goal of developing degenai is to create tools that not only serve us but can also be replicated by users and taken into their own communities. For example, users can trade through this proxy without needing to manually perform complex trading operations on Phantom or DEX Screener.
At the same time, we are currently developing another character. The two characters use the same technology, but their functionalities are slightly different. Although some information has already been disclosed, we are in the testing phase and have only opened a very small Alpha chat group, where invited users can share trading information.
Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding the ELIZA project that collaborates deeply with ai16z, you could have issued it yourself but handed it over to the AVA team. Do you think they are more professional and will do a better job with ELIZA? In what ways will you help the project in the future?
Shaw:
The AVA team showed me an early version of the project. At the time, I thought it was cool and was willing to work together to ensure that the project truly reflects high-quality standards. Additionally, their team has some excellent developers. Their vision is to create a platform that not only provides decentralized functions but also far exceeds the existing Eliza project in terms of user experience and functionality. They want to redefine the positioning and application scenarios of the Eliza token, not just as a token or AI project, but as a comprehensive platform covering various tools, services, and ecosystems. Support for ELIZA includes:
Technical Support: We will continue to provide support at the technical level, such as code reviews, optimizations, and assisting projects in implementing core functionalities.
Resource Integration: We will leverage our ecosystem and resources to collaborate more deeply with them, including sharing market channels and industry networks.
Community Promotion: We plan to utilize our community resources to help them expand their user base and ensure that existing Eliza token users can smoothly migrate to the new platform or accept new features.
Funding Support: If needed, we will assess whether to support the long-term development of the project through direct investment or participation in the token economy.
We are very optimistic about their potential, and we also believe that this project meets market demands and user expectations. They have the ability to drive the development of Eliza in a freer and more creative way, while the support we provide is to ensure that the project starts off on solid ground, aligns with our overall mission, and respects its independence.
Odaily Planet Daily: Whether in the Web2 or Web3 field, the AI sector is highly anticipated in 2025. Do you think the AI sector will outperform the GameFi Summer and DeFi Summer in Web3 in 2025?
Shaw:
I think it's possible. Ultimately, it depends on the performance of the global economy. If mainstream assets like Bitcoin continue to perform well, the market may continue to rise. Additionally, I firmly believe that AI will completely change the way the internet operates, and AI agents are just getting started. For example, on the X platform, I now see that most of the information seems to be AI-related content, and this change really feels crazy.
Odaily Planet Daily: Lastly, do you have any beginner advice for users who are just getting into the Web3 AI field?
Shaw:
Do your own research. I see many people losing money simply because they haven't done any reading or understanding. They just blindly follow the trend and only start complaining when they lose money. In behaviors like PVP, due to the rapid change of trends, a few minutes can determine whether you earn 1x, 10x, or lose everything. This rapid changing environment leads to a phenomenon of blind following. However, those who truly conduct extensive research will understand all the projects and clarify the differences between this project and that one. If you can spend a lot of time asking these questions and finding the answers, your chances of making the correct investment will be much greater.
Additionally, I believe that making money is not just about buying a project, but also about doing liquidity mining. Buy well-performing top tokens and then place them into liquidity pools. Although you may not get 10x returns because you missed early opportunities, you will receive long-term stable returns, which is the key.
