Original | Odaily Planet Daily (@OdailyChina)
Author | Asher (@Asher_0210)
Yesterday (December 23), as the creator of the Eliza framework and founder of ai16z DAO, Shaw accepted an interview with Odaily Planet Daily during a fan meeting event in Shanghai, sharing the current situation of ai16z, degenai, and the deep cooperation project ELIZA, as well as the impact of the AI sector on Web3 in 2025.
The following is the transcript of the interview.
Odaily Planet Daily: You have been very popular in the Web3 field during this time, which must have brought a lot of pressure. Can you share your personal experience and why you chose to step into the spotlight as a formerly anonymous developer in the second half of this year?
Shaw: I did not intentionally want to step into the spotlight, nor did I expect this to happen. It feels very strange because I was just a programmer before, and no one knew who I was. At that time, I was even anonymous, but I gradually felt a bit disconnected from the crowd, so I wanted to try to be myself and authentically present myself online. Then, I released the Eliza framework, which unexpectedly became very popular and completely changed my life. I had no idea these things would happen. In fact, I didn't even realize that the developer field had such a thing as 'spotlight.'
There is indeed pressure from the outside. I used to really enjoy promoting some other projects simply because I personally thought those projects were great, and I wanted to share what I believed in. However, when the DAO started to become very large, everyone became particularly focused on token-related matters, which made me feel a lot of internal pressure and no longer able to casually talk about those projects I liked.
Odaily Planet Daily: The Eliza framework is now one of the most followed projects on GitHub. What makes it special?
Shaw: I think there are mainly three reasons. First, out-of-the-box. Currently, there are many tools related to AI agents and large language models (LLMs). Although they are all great toolkits, you still need to build the entire agent yourself. Our constructed Eliza framework is ready to run as soon as you start it; it contains everything you might need. At the same time, it also provides many plugins, such as Solana plugins and EVM plugins, which are already integrated.
Second, the core of the AI agent is centered around the network. I noticed that many people limit AI to Python research and model development, but I believe the more important aspect of agents is to connect all these models to people through the internet. Therefore, we built it with TypeScript, and Web3 is especially suitable for the JavaScript and TypeScript ecosystem, which allows many developers to directly use it.
Third, focusing on social loops. We have focused on building connectors to social platforms like X, Discord, and Telegram, so developers can immediately run our tools and get their bots online without coding on X. Then they can add their own functionalities based on this, such as integrating EVM chains, allowing you to add a wallet to your agent with almost no code changes. Or, if you have your own software and API, you can also call them through the agent. Starting from social media is key, while agents on social media can self-promote, letting more people know of their existence and spreading quickly. I believe that is the reason for its success: agents can easily go online on X, and then everyone who sees it will want one, and they can quickly obtain and use it.
Odaily Planet Daily: Last week, ai16z not only launched the Binance Alpha sector but also the OKX contract trading. Is there any intention to further cooperate deeply with mainstream exchanges?
Shaw: Of course there are; we have others on our team specifically responsible for these matters. I think we may see more tokens listed and related progress after the New Year holiday, but I can't promise a specific time. I believe the listing on Binance and Coinbase is an inevitable trend, but I am more focused on AI agent-related content, so I cannot make any guarantees or provide investment advice.
Odaily Planet Daily: How does ai16z differ from previous DAO organizations in the Web3 field?
Shaw: I think the core issue with previous DAO organizations is that the decentralization attributes of the DAO have indeed been realized, but the autonomy part hasn't been done well. It’s not true 'autonomy'; it still requires a lot of manpower for communication and coordination. This brings many issues, such as a small group of people holding all the power. Usually, some 'whales' control all the voting rights; it's hard for newcomers to enter and contribute to the DAO.
This shortsighted behavior obviously exposes many coordination issues within the DAO. We believe this is where our technology can solve the problem, allowing more people to truly participate and contribute, and rewarding them for their contributions. We are researching a mechanism for 'continuous retrospective funding allocation.' The idea is: if you contribute code to the codebase, assist in Discord workgroups, or provide help in any meaningful way, these contributors will be rewarded. This is different from traditional airdrops; it is more like a way to continuously reward contributors. We plan to execute this reward mechanism every month. Currently, we are working hard to develop related features.
Odaily Planet Daily: So, do you think ai16z Dao will have its own business model in the future? What is it?
Shaw: Yes, we have a business model based on the accumulation of token value. At the same time, we are also making some investments, mainly investing in projects we believe are very valuable, such as token launch platforms, DeFi platforms, and projects within ecosystems using AI agents.
We are not like a traditional startup without VC support, but we do have a relatively large funding pool that was donated by a whale. We are using this funding to invest in projects we consider important and gain returns from them. We are also developing our own token launch platform and currently collaborating with the teams we have invested in. This is somewhat like the concept of the Baidu Fund, and we are also deepening cooperation with the Baidu Fund and other projects.
Odaily Planet Daily: Last weekend, the official ai16z Twitter mentioned integrating its ecological token economic model. Is it to increase token value through staking, burning, etc.?
Shaw: I believe that burning tokens is not an effective strategy to some extent. At least based on my experience, destroying tokens sometimes gives people a feeling of 'dumping,' which seems to not genuinely help the long-term value of the tokens. In fact, if I burn tokens myself, it may upset some people because they feel this would undermine their incentives. However, I believe staking is very important. I think any mechanism that locks tokens will be very popular. Currently, we are really concerned that our tokens face huge liquidity issues after listing. For example, we have a token with a market value of $1 billion but only $4 million in liquidity, which is clearly insufficient.
Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding degenai, you previously mentioned on the X platform that its artificial intelligence agent is about to be launched. Can you reveal what kind of artificial intelligence agent it will be? What is its core competitiveness?
Shaw: Yes, degenai is about to be launched; it is the first character we are launching and comes with a built-in wallet. Degenai can obtain trading signals through social media, and we will track certain KOLs to see if they really share quality recommendations. If we follow these KOLs' advice, can we make a profit? Or are they actually 'cutting韭菜'? The core of degenai is to establish a trust scoring system for making trading decisions based on this data. The ultimate goal of developing degenai is to make these tools not only serve us but also be replicable by users, taking them into their own communities. For example, users can trade through this agent without manually performing complex trading operations on Phantom or DEX Screener.
At the same time, we are currently developing another character. The two characters use the same technology but have slightly different functionalities. Although some information has been disclosed, we are in the testing phase and have only opened a very small Alpha chat group, where invited users can share trading information.
Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding the ELIZA project that collaborates deeply with ai16z, you could have issued it yourself but handed it over to the AVA team. Do you think they are more professional and will make ELIZA better? In what areas will you provide help to the project in the future?
Shaw: The AVA team once showed me an early version of the project. I thought it was cool at the time, and I was willing to work together to ensure that the project truly reflects high-quality standards. Additionally, they have some excellent developers on their team. Their vision is to create a platform that not only provides decentralized functionality but also far exceeds existing Eliza projects in user experience and functionality. They hope to redefine the positioning and application scenarios of the Eliza token, not just as a token or AI project, but as a comprehensive platform that encompasses various tools, services, and ecosystems. Support for ELIZA includes:
Technical support: We will continue to provide support at the technical level, such as code review, optimization, and assisting projects in realizing core functions;
Resource integration: We will use our own ecosystem and resources to engage in deeper collaboration with them, including sharing market channels and industry networks;
Community promotion: We plan to utilize our community resources to help them expand their user base and ensure that existing Eliza token users can smoothly migrate to the new platform or accept new features;
Funding support: If needed, we will assess whether to support the long-term development of the project through direct investment or participation in the token economy.
We are very optimistic about their potential, and we also believe this project meets market demands and user expectations. They have the ability to promote the development of Eliza in a freer and more creative way, and the support we provide is to ensure the project starts steadily, aligns with our overall mission, while respecting its independence.
Odaily Planet Daily: Whether in the Web2 or Web3 field, everyone is optimistic about the AI sector in 2025. Do you think the AI sector will outperform the GameFi Summer and DeFi Summer of that year in the Web3 field?
Shaw: I think it is possible. Ultimately, it still depends on the performance of the global economy. If mainstream assets like Bitcoin continue to perform well, the market may continue to rise. Moreover, I firmly believe that AI will completely change the way the internet operates. Currently, AI agents are just getting started. For example, on the X platform, most of the information I see now seems to be AI-related content, and this change really feels crazy.
Odaily Planet Daily: Finally, for users who are new to the Web3 AI field, do you have any beginner tips for them?
Shaw: Do your own research. I see many people losing money simply because they didn't read or understand anything. They just blindly followed the crowd and only started complaining when they lost money. For behaviors like PVP, trends change very quickly, and a few minutes can determine whether you make 1x, 10x, or lose all your money. This fast-changing environment leads to a kind of blind following. However, those who do a lot of research will understand all the projects and clarify the differences between this project and that one. If you can spend a lot of time asking these questions and finding answers, your chances of choosing the right investment will be much greater.
Moreover, I believe that the way to make money isn't just by buying a project; you can also engage in liquidity mining. Buy top-performing tokens and put them into liquidity pools. Although you may not get a tenfold return because you missed the early opportunity, you will achieve long-term stable returns, which is key.
