On December 20 at 5:00 AM (UTC+8), representatives from Sui, Circle, Wormhole, Bluefin, and Mysten Labs held the last Space of the year on X, discussing the interoperability of Sui DeFi and cross-chain protocols in depth. The editor compiled a text version based on the audio for everyone to read for reference.
X Space Audio Review:
· DeFi interoperability on Sui and cross-chain protocols
· DeFi interoperability on Sui
Guest introduction:
· Jeri Morgan (host): Focused on DeFi partnerships at Mysten Labs.
· Bridger: Software engineer at Mysten Labs, currently responsible for the Sui Bridge native cross-chain bridge project. Entered the crypto space in 2017 and participated in the development of various protocols.
· Rabeel Jawaid: Founder of Bluefin, a spot and perpetual contract DEX based on Sui. The platform has processed over $40 billion in trading volume this year. In the past two weeks, the platform has added about $50 million in liquidity.
· Ian J: Currently serves as CCTP project manager at Circle, launched Circle University, and created Circle's crypto knowledge content modules. Also has a consulting background in crypto data infrastructure and market research.
· Isaac: Part of the Wormhole Foundation's BD team, mainly responsible for product integration and chain expansion. Before joining Wormhole, I was a member of Circle's BD team and participated in CCTP work.
Space Content Highlights
Q1: Let's start with Circle. Ian, can you briefly introduce USDC and CCTP and explain how it enhances cross-chain transfers?
Ian: Sure. I'll start with Circle's overall situation, then talk about USDC and CCTP. Circle's mission is to enhance global economic prosperity through frictionless value exchange. We strive to empower developers to build the future using blockchain through an open platform, powerful tools, and a supportive community. As you may know, our main product is USDC, which is a globally leading regulated stablecoin. Currently, our circulating supply is $42 billion, and it may actually be slightly more today. About two months ago, Circle launched native USDC on Sui. An interesting fact is that Sui is the fastest chain to reach a circulating volume of $100 million in native USDC, paying tribute to the Sui ecosystem!
I believe CCTP is a connective organization within the entire crypto ecosystem, essentially unifying the USDC liquidity that is scattered across different blockchains and ultimately simplifying the user experience. It is actually a permissionless protocol that features 'one chain, multiple uses' and can safely facilitate cross-chain USDC transfers. Here, 'safely' refers to the native destruction of USDC on the source chain and the native minting of USDC on the target chain. We can delve into all the details next.
Q2: You mentioned that CCTP simplifies the user experience while ensuring security. So how does CCTP address the issue of liquidity fragmentation across multiple chains? What role does it play in today's DeFi?
Ian: I think it's necessary to first talk about how the liquidity fragmentation of USDC in the ecosystem arises, and then elaborate on how CCTP addresses this issue. Typically, some third-party cross-chain bridges issue USDC in their own unique form and token symbols during transfers. If you search for stablecoins on DeFiLlama, you will see many such tokens. These tokens are not directly issued by Circle, but are wrapped or bridged versions of USDC. These tokens are not interchangeable among themselves, leading to liquidity fragmentation between various pools of funds across different blockchains.
This not only has a negative impact on user experience (UX) and developer experience (DevX), but also requires end users or developers to explicitly choose a specific bridged version of USDC. Of course, there are some benefits, such as helping emerging blockchains quickly establish liquidity and activity. But these bridged versions of USDC cannot compare to a dominant form of native cross-chain USDC in terms of liquidity or security.
This is where CCTP comes in: it provides developers with a low-level primitive that can be used to extend the use cases of cross-chain DeFi and crypto capital markets. Developers can embed CCTP into their applications, wallets, or bridging solutions, enabling users to freely move any form of native USDC across chains. CCTP handles the routing of USDC behind the scenes and applies it to various scenarios in DeFi, such as cross-chain trading, lending, NFT purchases, liquidity pool rebalancing, and more.
Q3: CCTP currently supports 9 chains, providing 72 transfer paths, so how does CCTP ensure security and scalability as adoption increases?
Ian: This is thanks to the native burn and mint process. To make it easier to understand, when a user initiates a transfer through CCTP, the native USDC on the source chain is destroyed, and then Circle's validation service observes and confirms that destruction event. Based on this confirmation, the corresponding native USDC is minted on the target chain.
It's worth noting that CCTP is secured by Circle, which means there is no need for additional trust assumptions. This has a significant advantage compared to bridging methods based on 'lock and mint' or liquidity pools, or even those built on intent. As you mentioned, with Sui's addition, CCTP currently supports 9 blockchains and will continue to expand in 2025.
Q4: Next, please let Isaac explain the key role of Wormhole in promoting cross-chain interoperability and liquidity. How does Wormhole Connect simplify the cross-chain experience for developers and end users?
Isaac: From the developer's perspective, we prioritized the developer experience (DevX) of Wormhole Connect, ensuring it is very intuitive. Our goal is to make it as easy as possible for developers to access the cross-chain paths provided by Wormhole to expand their user base or acquire new sources of liquidity. The setup for Wormhole Connect is extremely simple, requiring only three lines of code. This has been validated in practice; on the morning of the launch, I coordinated with several teams, all of whom were able to complete integrations and go live within minutes.
For users, the value provided by Wormhole Connect is also powerful: it allows existing users to seamlessly transfer USDC on Sui with optimal capital efficiency while opening up a whole new potential market. For example, if a seasoned Solana user wants to participate in DeFi on Sui, they can use Wormhole as an entrance, transferring USDC from Solana to Sui in less than a minute and start opening positions. This way, applications and developers can expand their functionality set, while users can avoid dealing with issues like wrapped assets, liquidity fragmentation, or slippage.
Q5: You briefly mentioned how Wormhole integrates USDC on Sui through CCTP. How is this different from other bridging solutions?
Isaac: Perhaps I can start by talking about Wormhole's past role on Sui. Wormhole has always been the primary bridging solution for Sui, and assets transferred from other chains are officially recognized, including USDC wrapped by Wormhole. These Wormhole-wrapped USDC are widely used on Sui and have deep liquidity, providing a trusted transitional solution for stablecoins.
As Circle, as the issuer, begins to deploy native USDC on Sui, we are also supporting this process, ensuring not only a successful migration to native assets but also helping it achieve interoperability with other chains. Our integration is precisely aimed at achieving this goal.
In terms of differentiation, Wormhole is the only interoperability protocol with such a comprehensive set of features. We can push any multi-chain use case to market, such as cross-chain data queries, universal messaging, etc. Moreover, we always focus on security, which is reflected in all our work. Everything we build is open source, which is also one of the reasons we have been selected as the official interoperability partner for institutions like BlackRock, Securitize, and Flow Traders.
Q6: Next, please let Bridger introduce Sui Bridge and briefly explain what native bridging is and how it has progressed since its launch.
Bridger: A few months ago, we launched Sui Bridge. In simple terms, native bridging is similar to other bridging methods, but the difference is that the nodes that actually verify the bridging messages are Sui's validation nodes, rather than third parties. Initially, we only supported ETH from Ethereum. So far, we have surpassed 10,000 ETH in deposits, and the total deposit amount on Ethereum is now about 26,000 ETH, indicating that Sui Bridge is performing well in terms of activity.
We are working hard to support more tokens (as of the latest official announcement on December 24, the Sui Bridge cross-chain bridge now supports USDT).
！), more new assets will be added soon, stay tuned. Next year, we will focus on some behind-the-scenes work, which may not significantly impact user experience. At the same time, we will also launch new features such as supporting more blockchains and possibly introducing custom messaging capabilities. This way, we can transmit custom messages across chains like some other solutions (e.g., Wormhole).
Q7: How has the cooperation with Wormhole and CCTP improved the user experience of migrating assets to Sui?
Bridger: Working with Wormhole has been very pleasant. After the launch of CCTP, they enabled us to quickly integrate Wormhole Connect into the bridge.sui.io application. So, thanks to Wormhole for the quick support. As a developer, I must say that integrating Wormhole Connect is very simple and efficient.
Q8: What specific challenges does Sui Bridge address? What does this mean for developers?
Bridger: The challenge that native bridging addresses is mainly dealing with fragmented ecosystems. One advantage of native bridging is that it is tightly integrated with the Sui protocol itself. For developers, when you join the Sui ecosystem, you can easily find all the information you need. If you want to bridge assets from chains like Ethereum, you can also conveniently find related resources.
Q9: Next, please let Rabeel from Bluefin share his views on the importance of liquidity efficiency and user-friendly cross-chain solutions. How does the improved cross-chain USDC liquidity through CCTP and Sui Bridge impact Bluefin's users?
Rabeel: We are a trading platform, and from a practical operational perspective, this means that, first, liquidity is no longer so fragmented, and security is higher. I think Ian and Isaac have both mentioned this. Fast cross-chain transfers allow you to move assets back and forth between Solana and Base in less than a minute. Additionally, users can more conveniently transfer assets from CEX. Many people still hold assets on centralized platforms, and now being able to transfer back and forth using USDC makes everything much easier.
In the past, people would typically transfer Sui from Binance to the chain. Now, with the ability to send USDC from these centralized platforms, there will be less slippage when exchanging for stablecoins. I believe this will also unlock more fiat deposit options. What we ultimately hope to achieve is a convenient deposit experience similar to Apple Pay. And this is undoubtedly an important step towards that goal.
Finally, this makes it easier to balance between liquidity providers (LPs) and users, especially for LPs running CEX-to-DEX or cross-ecosystem DeFi strategies. This is particularly important for institutional LPs running high-frequency strategies, as it simplifies and clarifies operations.
Q10: Besides liquidity efficiency and cross-chain solutions, do CCTP and Sui Bridge also address other pain points?
Rabeel: I think everything for a trading platform like ours relates to liquidity. The easier it is for liquidity to enter, the higher the capital efficiency, and the better the user experience on the platform. Ultimately, the most liquid on-chain platform will attract traffic from regular users, which is our goal. This is undoubtedly a very important step towards that goal.
Q11: What kind of unlocking effect do you think this will bring to a broader range of traders and DeFi protocols in the Sui ecosystem?
Rabeel: I believe this will greatly lower the barrier for users to enter the Sui ecosystem. So far, thanks to zkLogin, creating wallets and setting up wallet infrastructure has become very simple, but the process of transferring assets has not been easy or intuitive enough. Now, this process will become much simpler. This will also unlock more liquidity within the ecosystem, and the interoperability of this liquidity between ecosystems will also be stronger. This will enable new strategies such as leveraged yield farming or arbitrage trading. Furthermore, more competitive pricing can be obtained through the Sui ecosystem.
Q12: Why is seamless user onboarding and user experience so important for driving the next wave of DeFi adoption?
Ian: The current problems facing DeFi, especially in the past, have required users to manage multiple wallets. While account abstraction is working to address this issue, users still need to pay gas fees in native chain tokens or interact directly with smart contracts. I like to compare this situation to using development tools to operate traditional finance (TradFi), rather than the mainstream utility applications we use in traditional finance today.
I believe that this industry needs to gradually develop from focusing primarily on infrastructure. While the Flywheel Effect is important and essential, we need to think more about real-world practical applications on top of DeFi. Examples that come to mind include AI-driven interfaces, voice-assisted navigation, GameFi, and DeFi, among others.
Ultimately, our goal should be to make the intuitiveness of DeFi similar to that of mobile banking to achieve mainstream user onboarding. We need to push the technical complexity to the background and focus on chain abstraction. I believe CCTP is an important leader in this area, connecting different virtual machines and ecosystems, such as MoveVM, EVM, Solana's SVM, and Cosmos SDK, integrating them into the user experience backend. I believe these efforts will drive the next wave of DeFi, attracting more non-native crypto users.
Q13: Now that we have CCTP, Wormhole, and Sui Bridge, we have made it easier for users to enter the Sui ecosystem, but overall, how do we consider the issue of users entering the cryptocurrency space? Currently, CeFi remains the main entry point. So regarding fiat deposits, do you have plans to optimize the relevant processes through CCTP or Wormhole?
Isaac: At least from Wormhole's perspective, our current focus is not on fiat deposits and withdrawals, but on chain abstraction. Native users of cryptocurrency already understand the core values of DeFi and stablecoins, such as providing financial services to the unbanked, combating inflation, or gaining opportunities in the lending market. While the DeFi ecosystem has made significant progress in user experience, there is still much work to be done in the field of multi-chain operations.
Currently, more and more key players are beginning to recognize the importance of chain abstraction, with protocols like Wormhole handling the heavy lifting of cross-chain operations at the underlying level while providing users with an experience that should feel like operating on a single chain, or even completely abstracting away the concept of 'chain.' I think the recent release on Sui is an important step in this direction.
When we talk about the growth of the next wave of DeFi users, I think the concept of chain abstraction needs to be integrated into the entire tech stack—wallets, applications, assets, and every touchpoint between them. This will open the door for super applications and broader mainstream adoption.
I would also like to add that this is indeed a challenge, as attracting non-native cryptocurrency users is the next focus of the industry, but we also cannot ignore those native users who require fine control over on-chain activities. This means we need to solve the needs of both types of users, which is a challenge. The current focus is still on native cryptocurrency users, but attracting non-native users is undoubtedly the key to the next wave of growth and is also the most challenging part.
Q14: For developers, what do you think are the biggest opportunities that CCTP and Sui Bridge bring for better DeFi products? Can you share some insights?
Rabeel: As I mentioned earlier, the convenience of cross-chain asset transfers, such as between Solana and Base, or the liquidity between centralized platforms, will unlock many new opportunities.
Bridger: I want to talk about the significance of CCTP and Sui Bridge from a higher level. By the way, Sui was recently ranked among the top ten chains for new developers in 2024, according to a report by Electric Capital. Sui's technical innovations, such as programmable transaction blocks, enable it to handle thousands of transactions in a single execution rather than processing them separately like traditional chains. When considering the native USDC routing achieved through CCTP, this execution model actually brings infinite possibilities for combining trades and unlocking more advanced on-chain automation features. For developers, I recommend studying successful Sui protocols such as DeepBook, Cetus, Aftermath, and Suilend. Diving into their code and operational models will provide a lot of inspiration.
Q15: Each speaker summarizes in one or two sentences what excites them most about their project or industry, or what they think the audience should learn or explore today.
Isaac: Regarding Wormhole, in line with today's theme, I am most excited about our work on stablecoins, especially enabling them to flow seamlessly across chains. I believe this will bring huge breakthroughs in many areas. So I encourage the audience to keep a close eye on developments in this area; we have a lot of new content coming soon.
Bridger: I am very excited about the Native Bridge extending support for more chains and assets. For Sui, I am particularly looking forward to seeing how its low-latency final confirmation times will drive new on-chain interactions, as I believe other chains have never achieved such performance. I believe there will be some very interesting innovations emerging next year that will provide reasons for everyone to point out why Sui is innovative.
Rabeel: Our goal is to become one of the most liquid platforms on-chain, and everything revolves around liquidity. If Sui's advantages can break through in terms of liquidity, then we can achieve this goal. Furthermore, the integration of all these cross-chain messaging protocols means that other chains will begin to rely on Sui's liquidity, which is also very exciting.
Ian: Continuing from the points made by others, especially what Bridger mentioned, I want to highlight the innovation of CCTP v2. This is an upgraded version that we will introduce to Sui and other blockchains supporting CCTP. Compared to the current version (v1), we will introduce faster transaction confirmation times (even faster than on-chain final confirmation times) and higher composability of the protocol. We will release more information about this in the ecosystem. If you want to know more, you can visit the official website. I am very excited about the future of Sui and CCTP.
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