Original | Odaily Planet Daily (@OdailyChina)
Author | Asher (@Asher_0210)
Yesterday (December 23), as the creator of the Eliza framework and founder of ai16z DAO, Shaw was interviewed by Odaily Planet Daily at a fan meeting event in Shanghai, sharing the latest developments of ai16z, degenai, and the deeply cooperative project ELIZA, as well as the impact of the AI sector on Web3 in 2025.
Here is the interview transcript
Odaily Planet Daily: You have been very popular in the Web3 field during this time, which must have brought a lot of pressure. Could you share your personal experience and why you chose to step into the spotlight this second half of the year as an anonymous developer?
Shaw: I did not intentionally want to step into the spotlight, nor did I expect such a thing to happen. It feels very strange because I was just a programmer before, and no one knew who I was. At that time, I was even anonymous, but I gradually felt a bit disconnected from the crowd, so I wanted to try to be myself and authentically present myself online. Then, I released the Eliza framework, which unexpectedly became very popular and completely changed my life. I never anticipated these events. In fact, I had not even realized that there could be a so-called 'spotlight' in the developer field.
There is indeed external pressure. I used to enjoy promoting some other projects simply because I personally thought those projects were great, and I wanted to share what I believe in. However, as the DAO began to grow significantly, everyone became especially concerned about token-related matters, which made me feel a lot of internal pressure, and I could no longer casually talk about the projects I liked.
Odaily Planet Daily: The Eliza framework is now one of the most followed projects on GitHub. What makes it special?
Shaw: I think there are three main reasons. First, it is ready to use. Currently, there are many AI agents and tools related to large language models (LLMs), and while they are all great toolkits, you still need to build the entire agent yourself. Our Eliza framework only needs to be launched to run directly; it contains everything you might need. At the same time, it also provides many plugins, such as Solana plugins, EVM plugins, which are all integrated.
Second, the core of AI agents is network-oriented. I have noticed that many people limit AI to Python research and model development, but I believe the key is to connect all these models to people through the internet. Therefore, we built it using TypeScript, and Web3 is particularly suited to the JavaScript and TypeScript ecosystem, allowing many developers to start using it directly.
Third, focusing on social loops. We have focused on building connectors to social platforms like X, Discord, and Telegram, allowing developers to immediately run our tools and launch their bots on X without coding. Then they can add their own features on top of that, such as integrating EVM chains, allowing them to add a wallet to their agents with almost no code changes. Alternatively, if they have their own software and APIs, they can also call them through the agent. Starting with social media is key, and agents on social media can self-promote, spreading awareness of their existence quickly. I think that is the reason for its success: agents can easily launch on X, and then everyone who sees it will want one, and they can quickly acquire and use it.
Odaily Planet Daily: Last week, ai16z not only launched the Binance alpha section but also launched OKX contract trading. Is there any plan for further deep cooperation with mainstream exchanges?
Shaw: Of course, we have other team members specifically responsible for these matters. I believe we might see more tokens listed and related progress after the New Year holiday, but I cannot promise a specific timeline. I think the listing on Binance and Coinbase is an inevitable trend, but I am focusing more on AI agent-related content, so I cannot make any guarantees or provide investment advice.
Odaily Planet Daily: What distinguishes ai16z from previous DAO organizations in the Web3 field?
Shaw: I believe the core issue with previous DAO organizations is that while the decentralized attribute of the DAO has been realized, the autonomy part has not been done well. It is not true 'autonomy' and still requires a lot of manpower for communication and coordination. This brings many problems, such as a small group of people holding all the power. Usually, some 'whales' control all the voting rights, making it difficult for newcomers to enter and contribute to the DAO.
This shortsighted behavior clearly exposes many coordination issues in the DAO. We believe this is exactly where our technology can solve the problem, allowing more people to genuinely participate and contribute, and providing rewards for their contributions. We are studying a mechanism for 'continuous retrospective funding distribution.' The idea is that if you contribute code to the codebase, assist in a Discord working group, or help in any meaningful way, these contributors will be rewarded. This differs from traditional airdrops, as it is more like a continuous way to reward contributors. We plan to implement this reward mechanism every month. Currently, we are working hard to develop the relevant features.
Odaily Planet Daily: So, do you think ai16z Dao will have its own business model in the future? What is it?
Shaw: Yes, our business model is based on the value accumulation of tokens. At the same time, we are also making some investments, mainly investing in projects that we believe are very valuable, such as token launch platforms, DeFi platforms, and projects within ecosystems using AI agents.
We are not like a traditional startup without VC support, but we do have a relatively large fund pool, which was donated by a whale. We are using this fund to invest in projects that we deem important and gain returns from them. We are also developing our own token launch platform, currently collaborating with the teams we invest in. This is somewhat similar to the concept of the Baidu fund, and we are also engaging in deeper collaborations with the Baidu fund and other projects.
Odaily Planet Daily: Last weekend, ai16z's official Twitter mentioned the need to integrate its ecological token economic model. Is this to increase token value through staking, burning, and other methods?
Shaw: I think burning tokens is not an effective strategy to some extent. At least in my experience, burning tokens sometimes gives the impression of 'selling off,' and this method seems not to genuinely help the long-term value of tokens. In fact, if I burn tokens myself, it might provoke some dissatisfaction among others because they feel it undermines their incentives. However, I believe staking is very important. I think any mechanism that can lock tokens will be very popular. Currently, we are really concerned that our token faces significant liquidity issues after listing. For example, we have a token with a market cap of $1 billion, but only $4 million in liquidity, which is clearly not enough.
Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding degenai, you mentioned on the X platform that its AI agent will be launched soon. Can you reveal what kind of AI agent it will be and what its core competitiveness is?
Shaw: Yes, degenai is about to debut; it is our first character, and it will be launched with a built-in wallet. Degenai can acquire trading signals through social media, and we will track certain KOLs to see if they really share quality recommendations. If we follow these KOLs' advice, can we profit? Or are they actually 'cutting leeks'? The core of degenai is to establish a trust scoring system to make trading decisions based on this data. The ultimate goal of developing degenai is to make these tools not only serve us but also be replicable by users and brought into their own communities. For example, users can trade through this agent without needing to manually perform complex trading operations on Phantom or DEX Screener.
At the same time, we are currently developing another character, using the same technology but with slightly different functions. Although we have already disclosed some information, we are in the testing phase and have only opened a very small alpha chat group, where invite-only users can share trading information.
Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding the ELIZA project that is deeply cooperating with ai16z, you could have issued it yourself but handed it over to the AVA team. Do you think they are more professional and will do a better job with ELIZA? What aspects will you help the project in the future?
Shaw: The AVA team once showed me an early version of the project. I thought it was cool at the time, and I was willing to work together to ensure the project truly embodies high-quality standards. Additionally, there are some excellent developers on their team. Their vision is to build a platform that not only provides decentralized functionality but also significantly exceeds existing Eliza projects in terms of user experience and features. They hope to redefine the positioning and application scenarios of the Eliza token, not just as a token or AI project but as a comprehensive platform encompassing various tools, services, and ecosystems. Support for ELIZA includes:
Technical Support: We will continue to provide support at the technical level, such as code review, optimization, and assisting projects in implementing core functions.
Resource Integration: We will leverage our ecosystem and resources for deeper collaboration with them, including sharing market channels and industry networks.
Community Promotion: We plan to use our community resources to help them expand their user base and ensure that existing Eliza token users can smoothly transition to the new platform or accept new features.
Financial Support: If needed, we will assess whether to support the long-term development of the project through direct investment or participation in the token economy.
We are very optimistic about their potential and believe this project meets market needs and user expectations. They have the ability to drive Eliza's development in a freer and more creative way, and the support we provide is to ensure the project starts off robustly, aligns with our overall mission, and respects its independence.
Odaily Planet Daily: Whether in the Web2 or Web3 field, people are optimistic about the AI sector in 2025. Do you think the AI sector in Web3 will outperform the previous GameFi Summer and DeFi Summer in 2025?
Shaw: I think it’s possible. Ultimately, it still depends on the performance of the global economy. If mainstream assets like Bitcoin continue to perform well, the market may continue to rise. Additionally, I firmly believe that AI will completely change the way the internet operates, and currently, AI agents are just beginning. For example, on the X platform, most of the information I see now seems to be AI-related content, and this change really feels crazy.
Odaily Planet Daily: Finally, for users who are new to the Web3 AI field, what beginner advice do you have for them?
Shaw: Do your own research. I see many people losing money simply because they didn't read or understand anything at all. They just blindly follow trends and start complaining when they lose money. In behaviors like PVP, due to rapid trend changes, a few minutes can determine whether you make 1x, 10x, or lose everything. This fast-changing environment can lead to a phenomenon of blind following. However, those who really do a lot of research will understand all the projects and clarify the differences between this project and that one. If you can spend a lot of time asking these questions and finding answers, your chances of making the right investment will be much greater.
Moreover, I believe that the way to make money is not just by buying a project but also by engaging in liquidity mining. Buying well-performing top tokens and putting them into liquidity pools. While you may miss out on a 10x return due to missing early opportunities, you will gain long-term stable returns, which is the key.
