With the launch of Bio Protocol on Binance, the DeSci track has gradually attracted more and more attention. On December 27, BlockBeats invited the leaders of the DeSci track, Bio Protocol co-founder Paul Kohlhaas, Pump Science co-founder Benjels, and VitaDAO founder Alex Dobrin, to talk about how the DeSci track should pay attention to Alpha with the theme of (BIO is launched on Binance, how to find Alpha in the DeSci season)
BlockBeats: Please give a brief introduction of yourselves first. How did you get involved with and join the DeSci track?
Paul Kohlhaas: Thank you for the invitation from BlockBeats. I am very happy to share it in Space. I am very grateful to the Chinese community and the entire Asian community for welcoming us. I am also very excited to talk about DeSci with you all. I think DeSci has great potential in the Asian community because there are many scientists in Asian universities who are native Chinese, Japanese or Korean speakers, and their scientific research innovations have not yet been discovered due to language barriers.
I have some scientific background; during my youth, I spent a lot of time researching online biology communities, such as Reddit forums. Later, I focused on researching cognitive-enhancing drugs, longevity drugs, diabetes medications, etc., and found these areas very interesting. I majored in economics in college, during which I also traded biotech stocks. Biotech stocks are actually very different from online biology communities because biotech data is very rare and considered confidential information. Usually, I would trade based on the speed at which companies were investing funds, as related companies would release positive or negative data every three to six months. When data is published, stocks might rise fivefold or drop 90% in a single day. This is very similar to the situation with cryptocurrencies. But I found that this system is really inefficient compared to open-source communities.
Around 2014, I discovered Bitcoin, then participated in online cryptocurrency communities and began researching Ethereum in 2016. I then founded my first company and joined Consensys in 2017. I was exposed to cryptocurrency quite early, during the first ICO period. During that time, I did a lot of work related to encrypted data: for example, how to encrypt data on-chain and attach it to wallets. I remember when CryptoKitties appeared, I asked myself, what if we attached medical data or intellectual property instead of cat or monkey patterns to NFTs?
In 2018, I helped launch VitaDAO and was one of the creators of the white paper. Since then, I have always dreamed of making a contribution in the DeSci field. VitaDAO is dedicated to creating an on-chain portfolio specifically for longevity research, particularly focused on popularizing methods for extending lifespan. After launching VitaDAO, we realized that this is a replicable framework. Many founders, patients, and entrepreneurs came to us and asked, 'Why don't we establish a DAO for hair loss research or fertility research?' We took their advice and began taking action in 2022 and 2023. This also gave rise to many DeSci DAOs we see today, and Bio.xyz and Bio Protocol were born from this.
Benjels: I am Benjels, and my background may be more traditional. I focus on the field of bioengineering and have always been fascinated by the intersection of biology and computer science. I believe there are many similarities between computer science and biology. Just as you program using a programming language on a computer, our ability to program biology at the genetic level is also increasing. Therefore, I have always had a strong interest in this intersection because its potential is enormous.
My first job was in the genomics field, where I worked in oncology, focusing on cancer diagnostics. I found this field very interesting and learned a lot, especially about genomics. However, I noticed a problem: a lot of patient data accumulated from doctors was sold to large pharmaceutical companies, and hospitals made a lot of money from it, while patients received no benefits, which is very unfair.
I have always had some interest in cryptocurrencies, having been exposed to it around 2017, and I have been looking for ways to combine blockchain with biotechnology. I initially thought this combination would appear in the health data field. At that time, I hoped that certain projects could find ways to put health data on-chain so that people could own their data and sell it. However, most projects failed. So I continued down the more traditional biotechnology path and later joined a venture capital fund related to biotechnology.
Later, I discovered the Deck of Molecule, which completely overturned my ideas. I was introduced to the concept of DeSci and IPNFT, which is the tokenization of the intellectual property of drugs, the most valuable part of the medical field, bringing killer value to patients. The reason I truly decided to join this field was realizing that if any approved drug could be tokenized into IPNFTs, its value would definitely exceed that of other NFTs.
As far as I know, the most expensive NFT should be the one created by Beeple, valued at 70 million dollars. And 70 million dollars is very cheap for a drug research project. Realizing the huge opportunities in DeSci makes me very excited. In 2022, I left a venture capital fund and joined Molecule to work with the biology team.
Alex: I have worked in the financial sector for almost my entire career, starting at a hedge fund, where I was responsible for applying machine learning techniques in the field of data science. In 2016, when I first encountered blockchain, I was basically doing tech-related work, trying to understand the potential impact of cryptocurrencies on the companies we invested in. A month later, I started investing my personal income into this field, experiencing the ICO boom and NFTs. In 2020, I began focusing on venture capital. I worked for a few months in a small family office in Switzerland before joining the largest crypto asset management company in Switzerland, so I have been engaged in venture capital for the past three and a half years.
In 2022, if I remember correctly, I met Paul, who introduced me to the project's situation. I was very interested in their mission and vision. Additionally, I have always been a biohacker, and this identity has accompanied me for 10 years. The fusion of computer science and blockchain with biohacking is very exciting for me. So I decided to devote all my energy to the DeSci field and joined VitaDAO.
BlockBeats: Let me ask Benjels, why do you want to do Pump Science? What are your original intentions?
Benjels: The main reason is to return to the fundamentals of cryptocurrency, which also includes personal speculation. I think the DeSci field focuses too much on advanced scientific research, which is very complex and can only be understood by real scientists, while neglecting the pure speculative desire of many cryptocurrency users. To make it easier for ordinary crypto users to understand science, we create a speculative environment around longevity experiments, not just experiments that can be understood by scientists, but also by ordinary users. Our philosophy is to simplify research, making it easier to understand, more speculative, and attractive to a wide range of cryptocurrency users. This is one of the important reasons for launching this project.
Another reason is that we have seen other projects successfully use Bonding Curves and issue tokens, continuously simplifying the cost of launching projects. Just like someone can easily issue tokens using Pump.fun, we hope to make launching a scientific experiment equally easy. Science is very difficult for most people, and many cannot start a scientific experiment. This limits the opportunity for science to be discovered by the public. By simplifying the process of starting experiments, we believe that more and better ideas will be realized, scientific experiments will become simpler, accessible to everyone, and produce more high-quality research outcomes. These are several important reasons for launching our project.
BlockBeats: What are the differences between the new BioDAOs and the existing BioDAOs, and what are the different ways to participate?
Paul Kohlhaas: When I met CZ in Bangkok, he asked me a question. He asked how many BioDAOs already have access, or how many such DAOs usually emerge each year. I said about 6 to 7 a year. He said that's so few. This made me start to think that building a DAO is very difficult for a small team, but if a community with a large number of token holders does it, it is not difficult. We now have 1.5 or 2 periods of DAOs, which are some flagship DAOs, such as Long COVID Labs, which is about to launch in early January, and the quantum biology DAO, which already has former MIT scientists involved. We also have Curetopia, which has already made it to the Bio Protocol Launchpad.
My previous communication with CZ was very enlightening. Fundamentally, there are already hundreds, if not thousands, of scientific fields and different scientific communities in the world, and we can build DAOs around these scientific fields. The factors that previously limited us included setting up token economics, fundraising or genesis auctions, helping DAOs with branding, and building communities. Although these are not difficult, they are all manually constructed. However, when the design of Bio Protocol includes a Launchpad, many steps and processes will become automated.
We currently have 3 flagship DAOs, using a hybrid approach that is between the Launchpad model and the old model. When we shifted to doing the Launchpad, we received applications from over 100 teams from around the world, and we have a lot of confidence in these teams, conducting in-depth investigations on about 20 to 30 of them. Among these teams, about 10 are in a preparatory acceptance state. People have not yet realized that when we shift to doing the Launchpad, the speed of launching these DAOs will be faster than before. In addition to the three DAOs mentioned above, we expect about 10 new DAOs to launch when the Launchpad goes live at the end of January. At least 10-20 DAOs will launch in this quarter or the next.
Many people are familiar with Daos.fun; on this platform, you will see a leaderboard where various DAOs trade based on the Bonding Curve. Bio Protocol also has a leaderboard. The Launchpad model is that BIO token holders can unlock DAOs by staking their tokens, supporting this DAO to enter the Launchpad. Once this DAO launches on the Launchpad, their tokens will have liquidity and can trade along the Bonding Curve, with the Launchpad used to raise funds and solidify the DAO's position on the leaderboard. Therefore, DAOs in the early stages may be at the bottom of the leaderboard, and the higher-ranking DAOs will receive more traffic from Bio Protocol and the community. Once a DAO reaches the top of the leaderboard, Bio Protocol will automatically deploy a liquidity pool co-owned by Bio Protocol and the DAO.
At this point, it is a fully autonomous system. Previously, building a DAO through the bio.xyz incubator usually took 3 to 6 months, sometimes even up to 9 months, because the incubator's approach was rate-limited. With this new design, the speed of establishing a DAO is very fast; generally, a DAO can go through the Launchpad and reach the top of the rankings in 3 to 4 weeks.
In the weeks following the TGE, we will start announcing some new DAOs that the team is already actively building. If you are a BIO token holder, by the end of January, you can officially start funding these DAOs, and you can stake BIO tokens to support them. In summary, Bio Protocol is moving towards a decentralized Launchpad, and the user experience may resemble that of Virtuals Protocol. This innovative design creates more liquidity between different DAOs. For example, as a BIO token holder, you can support four, five, or six different DAOs; perhaps you are a community member of one DAO, while another DAO you belong to hasn't developed a certain tool or framework yet.
I believe what these DAOs currently need the most are individuals with rich experience in Web3, who can design economic models and build communities. Many users are scientists or patients who are encountering Web3 for the first time; they may be using Bio Protocol for the first time, downloading a wallet for the first time, or even using Discord for the first time.
BlockBeats: What is the 'graduation' standard for BioDAO on the Launchpad? What role does the BIO token play in this?
Paul Kohlhaas: I believe the 'graduation' market value of the Bio Protocol ecosystem DAO tokens will surely be higher than that of other systems, such as the tokens of Pump.fun. When a meme is successfully deployed on Pump.fun, once the token's market value reaches 69,000 dollars, the liquidity of Pump.fun will automatically be added to Raydium. Pump Science will also build a similar system. Taking Bio Protocol as an example, the 'graduation' market value of the tokens is roughly between 10 million and 20 million dollars, although it could be lower, roughly in the range of 6 million to 12 million dollars.
Our token economics team is designing it and is close to finalizing it. The code for the Launchpad is also in full development, expected to enter the audit phase in about two weeks. The token economics is also in the finalization stage. Roughly speaking, we are considering a 'graduation' market value range between 6 million and 12 million dollars, possibly reaching 20 million dollars. We are still conducting some experiments with the hope of creating a system with very low wear rates.
On one hand, the DAOs on Bio Protocol actually raise funds through Bonding Curves. The funds raised by Pump.fun are all used to provide liquidity to the AMM pool. Unlike Pump.fun, a portion of the funds from Bio Protocol will be used to fund some scientific research. We believe Bio Protocol plays an important role in protecting users. If you quickly deploy an AMM pool, users may not be well protected. We want to use this innovative design to ensure that the funds of any user in a BioDAO are protected. I think it is important for DeSci to avoid excessive pumping. That is why we believe that achieving a higher market value through Bonding Curves over a longer period can actually prevent excessive pumping. If you join our community, you can discuss many governance proposals and token economic design topics together. In about a week or two, we will release the final design of the Launchpad.
How does Bio Protocol increase liquidity? In fact, the mechanism of Bio Protocol is very similar to that of Virtuals Protocol. BIO will also operate as a trading pair for the AMM. For example, with the new Launchpad design mechanism, once Bio Protocol starts issuing tokens, we will gradually pair tokens like VITA with BIO, and we will also pair many other BioDAO tokens. The result of this will be an increase in token liquidity on-chain. Therefore, we believe Bio Protocol will have very deep liquidity. The substantial funds raised during Genesis will be used to create very deep Ethereum liquidity pools within the Bio ecosystem. Of course, Bio also has Binance as a partner, whose liquidity depth is self-evident.
In fact, many BioDAOs do face liquidity depth issues. For example, tokens from HairDAO or AthenaDAO, or some other DAOs, have relatively small market values, and they do not have large liquidity providers or major market makers. So Bio takes on this role; it acts like a friendly market maker. By pairing the BIO token with various DAOs' native tokens, it can provide very deep liquidity. This liquidity is very efficient, and we also have very deep BIO-ETH and BIO-USDT trading pairs on other platforms.
BlockBeats: How is the token economics of Pump Science considered and designed?
Benjels: Let me first explain what Pump Science is. The original intention of Pump Science is to be a launch platform for scientific experiments, just as Pump.fun is a launch platform for memes. Just like Bio Protocol is the curator of BioDAO, Pump Science is the curator of experimental research.
Our mechanism is very similar to that of Pump.fun because our experimental costs are very low in the initial stages, with experiments costing around 300 to 500 dollars. Our token economics is also very similar to Pump.fun, with the token's initial market value being around 5,000 dollars, reaching around 85 SOL to 'graduate' from the token stage. We retain these mechanisms simply because users are very familiar with them, and we can afford them since the funding amounts for each experiment are actually very low. However, we also have differences from Pump.fun.
First is the token migration; we are not migrating all 85 SOL to the AMM to increase liquidity, but retaining 3 SOL to fund experiments. When liquidity migrates from Bonding Curve to AMM, for Pump.fun, 80% of the tokens are issued on the Bonding Curve, and 20% migrate to AMM for liquidity. What we do is 80% of the tokens are issued on the Bonding Curve, 15% migrate to AMM, and 5% will be reserved for the holders of Pump Science tokens.
The first two tokens issued by Pump Science are RIF and URO, with more tokens to be launched in February 2025. Our idea is to reward users holding old tokens, with 5% of the new tokens launched on the Launchpad being allocated for rewards. The purpose of this approach is to create a loyal user base that feels excited about new tokens launched on the platform and motivates users to continuously discover valuable tokens on Pump Science. By incentivizing users to hold more tokens, old token holders will be rewarded each time a new token is launched. This is another significant difference between us and Pump.fun.
Finally, two points are very important. One of the genius moves of Pump.fun is the destruction of LP tokens, a mechanism that prevents liquidity from being drained from the AMM. Essentially, you cannot withdraw liquidity from the AMM pool created by Pump.fun. Another AMM market maker on Solana, Meteora, allows locking LP tokens but does not destroy them. This mechanism prevents liquidity from being drained, and the Gas fees can be used to fund something productive. For us, that something is scientific research. Therefore, what we are doing is funding scientific research without any fundraising, with about 0.25% of fees allocated for scientific research.
The final difference is how to handle bots. There are many different methods to build a token issuance platform to mitigate the risk of bots buying large amounts of tokens. Daos.fun's approach is to create a whitelist; with a whitelist, you can obtain large amounts of tokens, thus combating bots. What we do is set very high fees at the beginning, and once the tokens are issued, the fees will be very high to prevent bot sniping. However, these fees will gradually decrease later. The fee reduction is relatively quick, but for users, it is still relatively slow, so that ordinary users can compete with bots. We believe this is a fairer mechanism that allows users to compete with bots on the token issuance platform. Users of Pump.fun are all aware that bots are a huge problem.
In summary, I believe that most users care about the ongoing benefits of holding RIF and URO. Our idea is that the more RIF and URO tokens you hold, and the longer you hold them, the more airdrops you will receive in the future, with airdrops accounting for 5% of each new launched token.
BlockBeats: How will the weight of future airdrops be distributed? For example, will users holding RIF or URO receive more airdrops than holders of other tokens?
Benjels: Based on the weighted average holding amount, that is, time-weighted average holding amount. However, we are still deciding how long that period will be, probably around 60 days. For holders of RIF and URO (the first tokens issued), the airdrops they receive will be more than those held by other token holders, and these holders will gain greater benefits. Everything is based on the value of the held tokens and is a time-weighted average value. This continuous incentive mechanism will create loyal users, motivating them to continuously seek new projects.
BlockBeats: Pump Science and VitaDAO have collaborations; are there any noteworthy experiments within the ecosystem? Will there be more cooperation or interaction between Pump Science and Bio Protocol?
Benjels: Around February, we will launch about 10 to 20 new drugs and related tokens, which is a drug list curated by the VitaDAO community. The 'Longevity Prize Fund' is curated by the VitaDAO community and has received support from Vitalik and many big names in the cryptocurrency field, mainly rewarding researchers dedicated to tackling aging diseases. These drugs are also within the scope of research funded by the 'Longevity Prize Fund.' These are all methods proposed by the community that may extend lifespan. We selected some from their complete list and launched some of those compounds as tokens on Pump Sciences. Users and anyone interested can directly fund these experiments on Pump Science.
People can participate not only financially; if there are scientists or longevity enthusiasts in the community, or compound developers, they can also apply to join our drug testing experiments. We believe decentralization is important, as Paul said, to prevent crazy pump-and-dump behaviors in the DeSci field. We want to ensure that at least the first batch of launched projects are of high quality and supported by professional developers and founders.
In fact, Pump Science and Bio Protocol systems have a lot in common. Bio Protocol focuses on building communities around different research fields, such as longevity communities. Bio Protocol plays an important role in the DeSci ecosystem, acting like a funnel to attract talent into it. Pump Science is similar to the execution layer of scientific experiments; we want to become a global laboratory and data network supporting these communities in conducting independent experimental research.
Using sports as an analogy, I think Bio Protocol is like creating a team, while Pump Science is akin to a television network, broadcasting service, scoring system, and the betting market surrounding sports. Without teams, there is no sport; similarly, without scoring and live broadcasts, sports cannot exist. Therefore, both need to coexist to make the entire ecosystem more complete. Our goal is to create two interdependent and highly coordinated systems, which are essential parts to attract more scientists into the DeSci field.
BlockBeats: As a veteran community in the DeSci field, what further attempts will VitaDAO make in cooperation with many communities? How will you attract more attention?
Alex: VitaDAO has recently established close cooperation with CUDIS and Pulse. When mentioning wearable devices, you might think of these two projects. I believe that the collision between DeSci and DePin will generate many interesting chemical reactions and application scenarios. The community can utilize these wearable devices to collect user data, which can then be used for experimental research; the community can conduct research using biomarker data.
I believe DeSci and DePin are in a dynamic relationship with synergies. Pump Science can be seen as a global laboratory network; imagine that anyone can contribute data, and anyone can conduct their own experiments using that data. In my view, this is decentralized science—scientific research conducted by oneself.
One of the current focuses of VitaDAO is to attract more top scientific talent. We have successfully attracted cutting-edge talents like Michael, but we still need more talents to pass on their experiences to more communities. Additionally, improving user experience is also an area we need to focus on, and further enhancing the research quality of these projects is one of our key focuses. Next year, we may conduct human trials while also advancing animal trials or worm trials, which are related to Pump Science and are our main goals for 2025.
We also plan to collaborate with Pump Science to conduct some experiments testing drugs developed in the laboratory. These drugs have shown initial efficacy in inducing autophagy. Later, we will test the drugs in worms, and the results will be shared with the community. Finally, I want to talk about products. VitaDAO has currently released VD001, which is a longevity product. Although it has not officially hit the market yet, it has been produced and will be shared with the community at this year's Devcon conference. We plan to hold a pre-sale for this drug at the beginning of next year, first opening it up to community members.
BlockBeats: Earlier, everyone mentioned that the DeSci community needs more high-quality scientists, especially scientists from the Asian community. Taking this opportunity, what are your views on the Asian community?
Paul Kohlhaas: In fact, we once invited scientists from Asia to submit research proposals directly to Molecule. Molecule provides funding assistance for scientific research for DAOs. We collaborated with Sora Ventures to initiate a funding prize of over 50,000 dollars, specifically rewarding Asian scientists. However, we received very few applications, but the situation has improved now. We are also very willing to let Korean scientists join, as there are many excellent drug development projects in Korea. Of course, there are also many outstanding scientists in China and Japan. So far, we have received very few applications from the Asian community. If you know any researchers in universities who are seeking funding support, please contact us. We also hope to see more Asian scientists, and even patients, get involved.
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