Author: Asher, Odaily Planet Daily
Yesterday (December 23), as the creator of the Eliza framework and founder of ai16z DAO, Shaw participated in a fan meeting event in Shanghai, where he was interviewed by Odaily Planet Daily to share updates on ai16z, degenai, the deeply cooperative project ELIZA, and the impact of the AI sector on Web3 in 2025.
Here is the transcript of the interview.
Odaily Planet Daily: You have been quite popular in the Web3 space recently; this must have brought a lot of pressure. Can you share your personal experience and why you chose to step into the spotlight this second half of the year from being an anonymous developer?
Shaw：
I never intentionally wanted to step into the spotlight and never expected such things to happen. It feels very strange because I was just a programmer before, and no one knew who I was. At that time, I was even anonymous, but I gradually felt somewhat disconnected from the crowd, so I wanted to try to be myself and authentically present myself online. Then, I released the Eliza framework, which unexpectedly became very popular and completely changed my life. I had no idea these things would happen. In fact, I wasn't even aware that there was a so-called 'spotlight' in the developer space.
There is indeed pressure from external sources. I used to enjoy promoting some other projects simply because I personally thought they were great, and I wanted to share what I believed in. However, as the DAO became very large, everyone became particularly focused on token-related matters, which made me feel a lot of internal pressure and made it difficult for me to freely discuss the projects I liked.
Odaily Planet Daily: The Eliza framework is now one of the most watched projects on GitHub. What makes it special?
Shaw：
I think there are mainly three reasons. First, it is ready to use. Currently, there are many AI agents and tools related to large language models (LLMs). While they are all great toolkits, you still need to build the entire agent yourself. However, the Eliza framework we built can be run directly as soon as you start it, and it includes everything you might need. At the same time, it offers many plugins, such as Solana and EVM plugins, which have already been integrated.
Second, the core of AI agents revolves around the network. I noticed that many people limit AI to Python research and model development, but I believe the more important aspect of agents is connecting all these models to people through the internet. Therefore, we built it using TypeScript, and Web3 is especially suited for the JavaScript and TypeScript ecosystem, enabling many developers to use it directly.
Third, focus on social loops. We have built connectors with social platforms like X, Discord, and Telegram, so developers can immediately run our tools and launch their bots on X without coding. They can then add their own features based on this, such as integrating EVM chains, allowing them to add a wallet to their agents with almost no code changes. Alternatively, if they have their own software and APIs, they can also call them through the agent. Starting with social media is key, and agents on social media can promote themselves, making more people aware of their existence and spreading rapidly. I believe this is the reason for its success: agents can easily go live on X, and once everyone sees it, they will want one too, and they can quickly access and use it.
Odaily Planet Daily: Last week, ai16z not only launched the Binance alpha section but also launched OKX contract trading. Are there plans for further deep cooperation with mainstream exchanges?
Shaw：
Of course, we do. We have other team members specifically responsible for these matters. I think after the New Year holiday, we may see more tokens listed and related progress, but I can't promise a specific timeline. I believe the listings on Binance and Coinbase are an inevitable trend; however, I am focusing more on AI agents, so I cannot make any guarantees and do not provide investment advice.
Odaily Planet Daily: How does ai16z differ from previous DAO organizations in the Web3 space?
Shaw：
I believe the core issue with previous DAO organizations was that while the decentralized nature of DAOs was indeed achieved, the autonomous aspect has not been well executed. It is not true 'autonomy,' as it still requires a lot of manpower for communication and coordination. This brings many issues, such as a small group of people holding all the power. Typically, some 'whales' control all the voting rights, making it very difficult for newcomers to enter and contribute to the DAO.
This short-sighted behavior clearly exposes many coordination issues within the DAO. We believe this is where our technology can step in, allowing more people to genuinely participate, contribute, and be rewarded for their contributions. We are exploring a mechanism for 'continuous retrospective funding allocation.' The idea is that if you contribute code to the codebase, assist in Discord working groups, or help in any meaningful way, these contributors will be rewarded. This differs from traditional airdrops; it's more like a continuous reward for contributors. We plan to implement this reward mechanism every month. Currently, we are working on developing the necessary features for this.
Odaily Planet Daily: So, do you think ai16z Dao will have its own business model in the future? What is it?
Shaw：
Yes, our business model is based on the value accumulation of tokens. At the same time, we are making some investments, primarily in projects we consider very valuable, such as token launch platforms, DeFi platforms, and projects within ecosystems utilizing AI agents.
We are not like a traditional startup without VC support, but we do have a relatively large fund, which was donated by a whale. We are using this fund to invest in projects we believe are important and to gain returns from them. We are also developing our own token launch platform and are currently collaborating with the teams we have invested in. This is somewhat similar to the concept of Baidu Fund, and we are also engaging in deeper collaborations with Baidu Fund and some other projects.
Odaily Planet Daily: Last weekend, ai16z's official Twitter mentioned the integration of its ecological token economic model. Is this to increase token value through staking, burning, and other methods?
Shaw：
I believe that burning tokens is not an effective strategy to some extent. At least based on my experience, burning tokens sometimes gives a sense of 'dumping,' which does not genuinely help the long-term value of the tokens. In fact, if I were to burn tokens myself, it might cause dissatisfaction among some people, as they would feel it undermines their incentives. However, I believe staking is very important. I think any mechanism that can lock up tokens will be very popular. What we are really concerned about now is that our tokens face significant liquidity issues after listing. For example, we have a token with a market cap of $1 billion but only $4 million in liquidity, which is clearly insufficient.
Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding degenai, you mentioned on the X platform that its AI agent will be launched soon. Can you reveal what kind of AI agent it will be? What is its core competitive advantage?
Shaw：
Yes, degenai is about to be launched. It is the first role we are introducing, and it will come with a built-in wallet. Degenai can obtain trading signals through social media. We will track certain KOLs to see if they really share high-quality recommendations. If we follow these KOL's advice, can we profit? Or are they actually 'cutting the leeks'? The core of degenai is to establish a trust scoring system that makes trading decisions based on this data. The ultimate goal of developing degenai is to make these tools not only serve us but also be replicable by users, allowing them to bring it to their own communities for use. For example, users can trade through this agent without needing to perform complex trading operations manually on Phantom or DEX Screener.
We are currently developing another role that uses the same technology but has slightly different functions. Although some information has been disclosed, we are still in the testing phase and have only opened a very small Alpha chat group with invite-only users who can share trading information in this Alpha chat.
Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding the ELIZA project, with deep cooperation with ai16z, you could have launched it yourself but handed it to the AVA team. Do you think they are more professional and will do a better job with ELIZA? In what ways will they support the project in the future?
Shaw：
The AVA team once showed me an early version of the project. I thought it was cool at the time and was willing to work together to ensure that the project truly reflects high-quality standards. In addition, they have some excellent developers on their team. Their vision is to build a platform that not only provides decentralized functions but also far exceeds the existing Eliza project in terms of user experience and functionality. They aim to redefine the positioning and application scenarios of the Eliza token, making it not just a token or AI project, but a comprehensive platform covering various tools, services, and ecosystems. Support for ELIZA includes:
Technical support: We will continue to provide technical support, such as code reviews, optimization, and assisting projects in implementing core functions;
Resource integration: We will leverage our ecosystem and resources to collaborate more deeply with them, including sharing market channels and industry networks;
Community promotion: We plan to use our community resources to help them expand their user base and ensure that existing Eliza token users can smoothly migrate to the new platform or accept new features;
Financial support: If needed, we will assess whether to support the project's long-term development through direct investment or participation in the token economy.
We are very optimistic about their potential, and we also believe that this project meets market demand and user expectations. They have the ability to promote Eliza's development in a freer and more creative way, while the support we provide is to ensure that the project starts smoothly, aligns with our overall mission, and respects its independence.
Odaily Planet Daily: Whether in the Web2 or Web3 space, everyone is optimistic about the AI sector in 2025. Do you think the AI sector will outperform the GameFi Summer and DeFi Summer in the Web3 space in 2025?
Shaw：
I think it's possible. Ultimately, it still depends on the performance of the global economy. If mainstream assets like Bitcoin continue to perform well, the market may continue to rise. Additionally, I firmly believe that AI will fundamentally change how the internet operates. Currently, AI agents are just beginning their journey. For example, looking at the X platform, most of the information I see now seems to be AI-related content, and this change feels truly crazy.
Odaily Planet Daily: Finally, do you have any beginner tips for users who are just getting into the Web3 AI space?
Shaw：
Do your own research. I see many people losing money simply because they haven’t done any reading or understanding. They blindly follow trends and only start complaining when losses occur. For behaviors like PVP, trends change very quickly, and a matter of minutes can determine if you make 1x, 10x, or lose everything. This rapidly changing environment leads to a phenomenon of blind following. However, those who genuinely conduct a lot of research will understand all the projects and clarify the differences between this project and that one. If you can spend a lot of time asking these questions and finding answers, your chances of making the right investment will be much higher.
Moreover, I believe there are several ways to make money, not just by buying a project, but also by doing liquidity mining. Buy top-performing tokens and put them into liquidity pools. While you may not get a 10x return due to missing early opportunities, you will achieve long-term stable returns, which is what truly matters.