Written by: Asher, Odaily Planet Daily
Yesterday (December 23), Shaw, the creator of the Eliza framework and founder of ai16z DAO, was interviewed by Odaily Planet Daily at a fan meeting in Shanghai, sharing the latest developments of ai16z, degenai, and the in-depth cooperation project ELIZA, as well as the impact of the AI sector on Web3 in 2025.
The following is the interview transcript
Odaily Planet Daily: You have been very popular in the Web3 field recently, which has brought a lot of pressure. Can you share your personal experience and why you chose to step into the spotlight from an anonymous developer in the second half of this year?
Shaw:
I didn't intentionally want to step into the spotlight, and I never expected this to happen. It feels very strange because I used to be just a programmer, and no one knew who I was. At that time, I was even anonymous, but I gradually felt a bit disconnected from the crowd, so I wanted to try to be myself and authentically present myself online. Then, I released the Eliza framework, which unexpectedly became very popular and completely changed my life. I never anticipated these things happening. In fact, I wasn't even aware that the developer field also had a so-called 'spotlight'.
There is indeed pressure from the outside. I used to love promoting some other projects purely because I personally thought those projects were great, and I wanted to share what I believed in. However, when the DAO started to grow very large, everyone became particularly focused on token-related matters, which made me feel a lot of internal pressure and no longer able to casually discuss those projects I liked.
Odaily Planet Daily: The Eliza framework is currently one of the most关注的 projects on GitHub. What makes it special?
Shaw:
I think there are mainly three reasons. First, it's ready to use. Currently, there are many AI agents and tools related to large language models (LLMs). Although they are all great toolkits, you still need to build the entire agent yourself. However, the Eliza framework we built can run directly as soon as you start it, containing everything you might need. It also provides many plugins, such as Solana plugins and EVM plugins, all already integrated.
Second, the core of AI agents revolves around the network. I noticed that many people limit AI to Python research and model development, but I believe that the more important aspect of agents is connecting all these models to people through the Internet. Therefore, we built it with TypeScript, and Web3 is particularly suitable for the JavaScript and TypeScript ecosystem, allowing many developers to get started easily.
Third, focus on social loops. We have built connectors with social platforms like X, Discord, and Telegram, so developers can immediately run our tools and get their bots online on X without coding. Then they can add their own features on that foundation, such as integrating EVM chains, allowing you to add a wallet to your agent with almost no code changes. Alternatively, if you have your own software and API, you can call them through the agent. Starting with social media is key, and agents on social media can promote themselves, letting more people know of their existence, thus spreading rapidly. I believe this is the reason for its success: agents can easily go live on X, and then everyone who sees it will want one, and they can quickly acquire and use it.
Odaily Planet Daily: Last week, ai16z not only launched on Binance's alpha section but also on OKX contract trading. Are there plans for further deep cooperation with mainstream exchanges?
Shaw:
Of course, we have other team members who are specifically responsible for these matters. I believe we may see more tokens listed and related progress after the New Year holiday, but I can't commit to a specific timeline. I believe the listing on Binance and Coinbase is an inevitable trend, but I am more focused on AI agent-related content, so I cannot make any guarantees or provide investment advice.
Odaily Planet Daily: What are the differences between ai16z and previous Dao organizations in the Web3 field?
Shaw:
I believe the core issue with previous Dao organizations is that while the decentralized attribute of DAO has indeed been achieved, the autonomy part has not been well done. It is not truly 'autonomous' and still requires a lot of manpower for communication and coordination. This brings many problems, such as a small group of people holding all the power. Usually, some 'whales' control all the voting rights; it is difficult for newcomers to enter and contribute to the DAO.
This short-sighted behavior clearly exposes many coordination problems within the DAO. We believe this is precisely where our technology can solve issues, enabling more people to genuinely participate and be rewarded for their contributions. We are exploring a mechanism for 'continuous retrospective funding allocation.' The idea is that if you contribute code to the codebase, assist in the Discord working group, or provide help in any meaningful way, these contributors will be rewarded. This is different from traditional airdrops; it is more like a continuous way to reward contributors. We plan to implement this reward mechanism every month. Currently, we are working on developing the relevant features for it.
Odaily Planet Daily: So, do you think ai16z Dao will have its own business model in the future? What is it?
Shaw:
Yes, our business model is based on the accumulation of token value. At the same time, we are also making some investments, primarily in projects we believe are very valuable, such as token launch platforms, DeFi platforms, and projects in ecosystems using AI agents.
We are not like a traditional startup, lacking VC support, but we do have a relatively large fund pool, donated by a whale. We are using this fund to invest in projects we consider important and gain returns from them. We are also developing our own token launch platform and are currently collaborating with the teams we have invested in, which is somewhat like the concept of the Baidu Fund. We are also engaging in deeper cooperation with the Baidu Fund and several other projects.
Odaily Planet Daily: Last weekend, ai16z's official Twitter mentioned integrating its ecological token economic model. Is it through staking, burning, and other methods to enhance token value?
Shaw:
I believe that burning tokens is not, to some extent, an effective strategy. At least based on my experience, burning tokens sometimes gives a feeling of 'selling off,' which does not seem to genuinely help the long-term value of the token. In fact, if I burn tokens myself, it might upset some people because they feel it undermines their incentives. However, I believe staking is very important. I think any mechanism that can lock tokens will be very popular. Currently, what we are truly concerned about is the huge liquidity issues our token faces after listing. For example, we have a token with a market value of $1 billion, but only $4 million in liquidity, which is obviously insufficient.
Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding degenai, you mentioned on the X platform that it will soon launch its AI agents. Can you reveal what kind of AI agent it will be? What is its core competitiveness?
Shaw:
Yes, degenai is about to debut; it is the first role we launched, and it will come with a built-in wallet. Degenai can obtain trading signals through social media. We will track certain KOLs to see whether they truly share quality recommendations. If we follow these KOLs' suggestions, can we make a profit? Or are they actually 'cutting the leeks'? The core of degenai is to establish a trust scoring system to make trading decisions based on this data. The ultimate goal of developing degenai is to make these tools not only serve us but also be replicable by users to their own communities. For example, users can trade using this agent without having to perform complex trading operations manually on Phantom or DEX Screener.
At the same time, we are currently developing another role, which uses the same technology but has slightly different functions. Although some information has already been disclosed, we are in the testing phase, and we have only opened a very small alpha chat group where invited users can share trading information.
Odaily Planet Daily: Regarding the ELIZA project that has deep cooperation with ai16z, you could have issued it yourself but handed it over to the AVA team. Do you think they are more professional and will do a better job with ELIZA? In what ways will they provide support for the project in the future?
Shaw:
The AVA team once showed me an early version of the project. At that time, I thought it was cool and was willing to work together to ensure the project truly embodies high-quality standards. Additionally, their team has some excellent developers. Their vision is to build a platform that not only provides decentralized functionalities but also far exceeds the existing Eliza project in user experience and features. They want to redefine the positioning and use cases of the Eliza token, not just as a token or AI project, but as a comprehensive platform encompassing various tools, services, and ecosystems. Support for ELIZA includes:
Technical support: We will continue to provide support at the technical level, such as code review, optimization, and assisting projects in implementing core functionalities;
Resource integration: We will leverage our ecosystem and resources to engage in deeper collaboration with them, including sharing market channels and industry networks;
Community promotion: We plan to utilize our community resources to help them expand their user base and ensure that existing Eliza token users can smoothly migrate to the new platform or accept new functionalities;
Financial support: If needed, we will evaluate whether to support the project's long-term development through direct investment or participation in token economics.
We are very optimistic about their potential and believe that this project meets market demand and user expectations. They have the ability to drive Eliza's development in a more free and creative way, and our support is aimed at ensuring that the project starts solidly, aligns with our overall mission, while respecting its independence.
Odaily Planet Daily: Whether in the Web2 field or the Web3 field, everyone is optimistic about the AI sector in 2025. Do you think the AI sector in Web3 will outperform that year's GameFi Summer or DeFi Summer?
Shaw:
I think it's possible. Ultimately, it still depends on the performance of the global economy. If mainstream assets like Bitcoin continue to perform well, the market may continue to rise. Additionally, I firmly believe that AI will fundamentally change how the Internet operates; currently, AI agents are just getting started. For instance, on the X platform, most of the information I see now seems to be AI-related content, which is really a crazy change.
Odaily Planet Daily: Finally, do you have any beginner advice for users who are just getting into the Web3 AI field?
Shaw:
Do your own research. I see many people losing money simply because they haven't done any reading or understanding. They just blindly follow trends, and when losses happen, they start complaining. For actions like PVP, where trends change very quickly, a few minutes can determine whether you earn 1x, 10x, or lose everything. This rapidly changing environment creates a phenomenon of blind following. However, those who truly conduct extensive research will understand all the projects and clarify the differences between this project and that one. If you can spend a lot of time asking these questions and finding answers, your chances of making the right investment will be much greater.
In addition, I believe that there are more ways to make money than just buying a project; you can also engage in liquidity mining. Purchase high-performing top tokens and place them into liquidity pools. Although you may not get 10x returns due to missing early opportunities, you will receive stable long-term returns, which is the key.
